HolyDiver
Active member
Forgive me if this has been asked before, @Sherman Davies is Nordlüng single or double spaced? I assumed double, but I just got the figure and it looks like he'd got on a large single.
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Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
- Thread starter Scytale
- Start date
Sushiscape3_0
Member
I apologize for my ignorance, but is there group for assisting in refining/playtesting customs (the closest I can find is the old CHCG24, but that's been dead for years)? I have a custom that I think has serious SoV potential down the line but want some assistance playtesting from more experienced players before I look into submitting. I figured someone here would know.
He’s best on a large peanut.
Maklar the Silver Prince
Well-known member
Post this custom in your personal customs thread and I will take a look.
Also, check out this thread after you've done a bit of playtesting if you're wanting to get some fresh playtesting eyes on it: https://www.heroscapers.com/threads/custom-unit-playtesting-exchange.56421/
Looking forward to seeing your custom.
Sushiscape3_0
Member
Thanks. I'm in the middle of reformatting my thread, It'll be up in an hour or so at most.
Forgot to mention - in order for him to fit comfortably next to ruins, trees, etc... the best placement for his feet on the base looks like this:
Not to kink shame, but wow - that is a lot of likes for a simple foot pic. Heroscapers must be big Tarantino fans.
Lord Hierarch
Active member
Not everyone can fit on the base.
Sometime's its a tight fit. You gotta work it.
Here? A natural fit. Like it was made to take it.
I'd like to submit the Icthius Faction, for SOV consideration.
The Icthius faction, (pronounced ick-thee-us) consists of a Bapelag, a Unique Hero, Deepfin Stalker, a Common Hero, and the Deepfin Marauders, a Common Squad.
Balance:
Bapelag - Priced at 85, he's a bit more expensive than his inspiration of Kuthnak (but less than Kuthnak's current Delta cost). While he has solid stats and is a ranged, bondable hero, his power is reliant entirely on the Marauders. Unlike Kuthnak, he'll need to be much closer to the action to be effective.
Deepfin Stalker - Priced at 30 points, puts him 5 points higher than the Drow Chainfighter, who is probably his most apt comparison. While the Deepfin has less attack, move, and survivability, his role as a bonding target and potential debuffer makes 30 points feel appropriate. For transparency, I do want to note that the figure's powerset is near identical to Levi Wade, a lasso-wielding lawman designed by Superfrog . I wasn't aware of the unit's existence before it was pointed out.
Deepfin Marauders - Priced at 65 points, they fall in the point range of many 3-figure squads. However, they are very hero-reliant for their offense and they want Bapelag and a healthy number of Stalkers to both boost their attack and weaken their opponents. But, what they lack in raw power or survivability, they make up for it in utility.
Playability:
Bapelag - While being inspired by Kuthnak, they play quite differently. Instead of staying well outside threat range and sending kamikaze orcs, Bapelag needs to be closer to the action. His power buffs the Maruader's attack and range, leading to some interesting combos. For example, Marauders can forgo bonding and use Deep Sea Blood Offering to be a temporary 7-range sniper, or charge into opponents with 4 attack. But, any whiffed attacks means someone has to pay the blood price. (Hence why the personality is devout, because he'll offer his own blood if needed).
Deepfin Stalker - The other half of the Deepfin Marauders bonding equation, their role is to grab and isolate opponents for the Marauders to charge into or set up ranged attacks from height.
Deepfin Marauders - The meat and potatoes of the faction. They can opt for a more melee approach with bonding, borrowing the 10th's Bayonet charge, or forgo bonding to have a slight increase in range to match the Teeth of the Makwa.
Creativity - While none of the powers are wholly unique, I think the combination of powers together makes a playstyle unlike that of other factions, based on their versatility. While they do have weaknesses (no special attacks, mediocre survivability, can struggle against large/huge figures), their versatility in choosing different playstyles each turn helps them maximize their otherwise average output.
Theme - They're scary fishmen. While I'm not an expert on the planet lore, Arctorus seems like a good fit as that planet seems to have a lot of both grotesqueries and mysteries. The name Ichthius (a play on the greek word for fish), also sounds like something deriving from that planet.
Availability: Regarding the Miniatures, they are Kuo-Toa #1, #2, #3, #14 (Mancatcher) and Kuo-Toa Archpriest #13 from the Vecna Eve of Ruin, D&D Icons of the Realms set. I did a detailed search last month for inventory when posting in the SOV workshop thread. The least available figure was the common squad figure in the throwing stance. I found around 110 from the bigger names (miniature market, KingsofLight, etc) and about another 15-20 more from sites with less inventory or random ebay sellers. The other 5 figures had about 130-160 of each. The cost of each figure is anywhere from $2 to $4 depending on where you're buying from. The minis look really nice in person and the purple and yellow color palette visually sticks out in my Heroscape collection in a good way.
Note, that WOTC also released a Kuo-Toa Warband set after the Vecna that featured the same five figures but with red clothing. Because these are from $50 warband sets, they are much more expensive. KingsofLight sells them separately for about $5-$7 a figure and he had at least 30 of each unit. The intended units are the cheaper yellow units, but at least there is a more expensive backup option that hopefully comes down in price at some point.
I understand that as a faction, if one fails they all fail, but what I have found satisfying about their playstyle is the triangle of synergy between the three, so I'm fine with that. Thanks in advance to the judges for their time in assessing whether this faction should be reviewed.
The Icthius faction, (pronounced ick-thee-us) consists of a Bapelag, a Unique Hero, Deepfin Stalker, a Common Hero, and the Deepfin Marauders, a Common Squad.
Balance:
Bapelag - Priced at 85, he's a bit more expensive than his inspiration of Kuthnak (but less than Kuthnak's current Delta cost). While he has solid stats and is a ranged, bondable hero, his power is reliant entirely on the Marauders. Unlike Kuthnak, he'll need to be much closer to the action to be effective.
Deepfin Stalker - Priced at 30 points, puts him 5 points higher than the Drow Chainfighter, who is probably his most apt comparison. While the Deepfin has less attack, move, and survivability, his role as a bonding target and potential debuffer makes 30 points feel appropriate. For transparency, I do want to note that the figure's powerset is near identical to Levi Wade, a lasso-wielding lawman designed by Superfrog . I wasn't aware of the unit's existence before it was pointed out.
Deepfin Marauders - Priced at 65 points, they fall in the point range of many 3-figure squads. However, they are very hero-reliant for their offense and they want Bapelag and a healthy number of Stalkers to both boost their attack and weaken their opponents. But, what they lack in raw power or survivability, they make up for it in utility.
Playability:
Bapelag - While being inspired by Kuthnak, they play quite differently. Instead of staying well outside threat range and sending kamikaze orcs, Bapelag needs to be closer to the action. His power buffs the Maruader's attack and range, leading to some interesting combos. For example, Marauders can forgo bonding and use Deep Sea Blood Offering to be a temporary 7-range sniper, or charge into opponents with 4 attack. But, any whiffed attacks means someone has to pay the blood price. (Hence why the personality is devout, because he'll offer his own blood if needed).
Deepfin Stalker - The other half of the Deepfin Marauders bonding equation, their role is to grab and isolate opponents for the Marauders to charge into or set up ranged attacks from height.
Deepfin Marauders - The meat and potatoes of the faction. They can opt for a more melee approach with bonding, borrowing the 10th's Bayonet charge, or forgo bonding to have a slight increase in range to match the Teeth of the Makwa.
Creativity - While none of the powers are wholly unique, I think the combination of powers together makes a playstyle unlike that of other factions, based on their versatility. While they do have weaknesses (no special attacks, mediocre survivability, can struggle against large/huge figures), their versatility in choosing different playstyles each turn helps them maximize their otherwise average output.
Theme - They're scary fishmen. While I'm not an expert on the planet lore, Arctorus seems like a good fit as that planet seems to have a lot of both grotesqueries and mysteries. The name Ichthius (a play on the greek word for fish), also sounds like something deriving from that planet.
Availability: Regarding the Miniatures, they are Kuo-Toa #1, #2, #3, #14 (Mancatcher) and Kuo-Toa Archpriest #13 from the Vecna Eve of Ruin, D&D Icons of the Realms set. I did a detailed search last month for inventory when posting in the SOV workshop thread. The least available figure was the common squad figure in the throwing stance. I found around 110 from the bigger names (miniature market, KingsofLight, etc) and about another 15-20 more from sites with less inventory or random ebay sellers. The other 5 figures had about 130-160 of each. The cost of each figure is anywhere from $2 to $4 depending on where you're buying from. The minis look really nice in person and the purple and yellow color palette visually sticks out in my Heroscape collection in a good way.
Note, that WOTC also released a Kuo-Toa Warband set after the Vecna that featured the same five figures but with red clothing. Because these are from $50 warband sets, they are much more expensive. KingsofLight sells them separately for about $5-$7 a figure and he had at least 30 of each unit. The intended units are the cheaper yellow units, but at least there is a more expensive backup option that hopefully comes down in price at some point.
I understand that as a faction, if one fails they all fail, but what I have found satisfying about their playstyle is the triangle of synergy between the three, so I'm fine with that. Thanks in advance to the judges for their time in assessing whether this faction should be reviewed.
P_J_Keller
VIG & Battleship Galaxies Weasel
I like this faction and hope that you can get them approved
Especially since I just ordered the miniatures
Especially since I just ordered the miniatures
Shurrig
Active member
Neat little faction!
to review
Ooh, they look cool. 
to review
to review
Xiegfried
Active member
on Jedidiah. Much as I enjoy the X order marker design space seeing more exploration, I don't love having two abilities utilizing it on the same card. I think Outlaw Ambush could see some revising along the lines of what Scytale recommended as well. I think the design is really close, just needs a little more finessing. It's been really cool to see the Ichthius faction evolve over time and I like where it's landed.
to review.
You can copy and paste Xiegfried's votes onto me for basically the same reasons minus the fact that I was fully unaware of the Ichthius faction and it looks neat. I'm always game for more strategic bonding.
on Jedidiah
on Ichthius
~Dysole, who missed the last vote and doesn't want to miss this one
on Jedidiah on Ichthius~Dysole, who missed the last vote and doesn't want to miss this one
I think Slither should be renamed to Amphibious for these guys. It's a generic name that would fit far more easily with future potential watery creatures that aren't snakes. I'm not a judge, and I certainly don't think this should be used to down vote against the Ichthius designs overall. It just seems a very obvious and simple thing to change.
SkyWhale
Active member
Amphibious is already used! But I do agree that it might be beneficial to find a word other than "Slither" for this specific power.
For what it's worth, I've used other names for "Slither" for other bipedal aquatic custom figures. I just felt that for an SOV nomination, with no precedent of renaming well-known movement powers, I would let the judges decide if that's something they would like changed. If these units were to pass and SOV wanted to rename the power for the final version of the card, I would be okay with that.
wriggz
Friendly Neighborhood Librarian
Necro-Mage Elbda by @NecroBlade
Balance
As can be seen with some of the earliest heroes (looking at you Raelin and Taelord), balancing the cost of cheerleaders is challenging. Drafting Elbda requires forgoing 2 thralls, which would take a typical Nicholas Esenwein + Thrall army from 12 to 10 Thralls. Even with a decent ranged attack for use in the endgame, this is significant reduction in attack output, especially if Nick falls prematurely or lacks targets for Bloodborn Rising. However, Elbda’s in game point value can make the minion worth its points by gaining board control early and increasing the Thralls attack output by 50% on rounds without repositioning Elbda. Importantly even on rounds where Elbda is repositions you do not loose any Thrall efficiency and gain a ranged attack of 3.
Necromantic Nexus is harder to price for, since it is so dependant on the powers of the units it is interacting with. There is already a significant cost attached to drafting Nick, and while being able to choose between replacing the destroyed figure, or placing it in the aura around Elbda, Nick is normally close enough to the front lines that the choice is not significantly game changing. The Zombies of Morindan typically prefer to continue to move as a hoard, so would typically prefer another squad or a stronger cleanup hero in place of Elbda. Finally, the Skeletons of Annellintia are a surprisingly effective pairing with Elbda. Positioning Eldba in the early to midgame, Necromantic Nexus can be used to keep the Skeletons on the front line compensating for their low move value and keeping the relatively fragile Lady or Duchess Esenwein out of harms way. The one-two punch of Necromantic Nexus and Necromancy is tied to the number of Skeletons you draft increasing it value in higher point games.
Theme:
Necro-Mage Elbda fits well as a sub-commander between the frontline fodder and a more powerful leader when drafted with either the Thralls or Skeletons of Annellintia. I like how both Elbda’s powers are contingent on other units and that Elbda is not powerful on its own, requiring the mage to fit into existing army structures. Magic by its nature involves a lot of handwaving, and we see that here with the ranged attack and Necromantic Nexus, but we are talking about a skeleton after all. Choosing Valkrill over Utgar, seems determined by the utility of Mindless Pack Command over Necromantic Nexus, since A tormenting Undead Mage could fit with either. Three defense it a bit of a stretch given the chosen miniature, but I prefer to keep the power set simple rather than add Skeletal Form.
Creativity:
I’m surprise that the trope of subcommander hasn’t shown up more in Heroscape. The closest examples are secondary bonding figures like Crixus to Spartacus, whereas Elbda as a midlevel manager is perfectly implemented. I personally enjoy the high variance of the Thrall army, and have repeatedly used them in testing, but as delta pricing shows, they can use a bump in turn efficiency to be competitive. I like the simplicity of how Mindless Pack Command is implemented rather than modifying the D20 roll. As I expand on below, Necromantic Nexus is a clever power that rewards clever players working well with multiple common undead units.
Playability:
As with all non-bonding cheerleaders, Elbda adds complexity to order marker management. With the tight 5 sight space aura, if you want maximum attack efficiency you need to have developed some thralls before moving Elbda up the battlefield which requires careful timing. This is made more complex by the inclusion of Nick in your army as you are juggling three active units. Leaving Nick exposed or forgoing attack turns with Thralls to reposition Elbda makes for a house of cards that is all to easy to come crashing down. When skill and luck work in your favour, playing this way can be hugely rewarding but does require favourable terrain, that does not require significant board control. For those that prefer to play safe, keeping Elbda in or just outside your start zone to help move out additional thralls in the early game is a viable option, since 3 attack at 5 range on a 4 life 3 defense figure is a reasonable clean up option.
In either case if you can constantly activate an additional thrall on each order marker, the Thralls are operating a 150% efficiency, which is a huge boon. Knowing you are guaranteed to activate at least 2 thralls, allows for more aggressive planning. Using a Bloodburst or Deathstrike Thrall soften up a hero, then following up with a Preyblood or Darkprowl leans into the strengths of the Thralls while reducing possible loses from Engorge, Blood Hunger, and Pounce. Having the option for improved positioning with Necromantic Nexus was a nice bonus, but was rarely game changing, given that smart opponents don’t leave their squad figures isolated for Nick to snack on.
Playing Elbda with the Skeletons of Annellintia really breathed life into the skeletons. While the skeletons are slow figures that can be a fast army, the ability to place a Skeleton 5 spaces further up the board than Elbda really improves their board control. Banking on Necromancy, I found myself playing even more aggressively since I could position skeletons on or just short of the front lines without risking my Lady or Dutchess tucked safely in my start zone. Since Necromantic Nexus is clear sight spaces, you can ignore elevations and position them on hills, across rivers or atop walls. Elbda and Sonia add up to 95 points plus 3 squads of Skeletons a strong core army. With that many Skeletons you have the potential to bring 10 Skeletons back (6 of 12, 3 of 6, 1 of 3) though in practice Order Marker management or loosing Sonya to an assassin reduces this number. These numbers only increase with Army point values, making for a very scary army of the undead at in higher point games on larger maps. I did feel a sense of excitement each time a Skeleton popped up among the front lines, as if the battle was happening in a graveyard and someone was playing Thriller on the boombox.
For completeness I tested with both the Zombies of Morindan and Zombie hulk, but these armies prefer to hoard all the order markers to themselves. Additionally, figures destroyed by Zombies are typically where you want your newly created Zombies anyway.
Summary:
As a judge I enjoy when a designer can tap into unexplored roles within a Heroscape army, such is the case with the middle manager mage role Elbda fulfills. I found Elbda enhances existing units in a way that makes them more fun, or play differently which adds to the fabric of the game. While the Thralls and Skeletons can be played without another Mage in the mix players will find rewards by adding in Necro-Mage Elbda.
I vote Yea to induct Necro-Mage Elbda into the SoV.
Balance
As can be seen with some of the earliest heroes (looking at you Raelin and Taelord), balancing the cost of cheerleaders is challenging. Drafting Elbda requires forgoing 2 thralls, which would take a typical Nicholas Esenwein + Thrall army from 12 to 10 Thralls. Even with a decent ranged attack for use in the endgame, this is significant reduction in attack output, especially if Nick falls prematurely or lacks targets for Bloodborn Rising. However, Elbda’s in game point value can make the minion worth its points by gaining board control early and increasing the Thralls attack output by 50% on rounds without repositioning Elbda. Importantly even on rounds where Elbda is repositions you do not loose any Thrall efficiency and gain a ranged attack of 3.
Necromantic Nexus is harder to price for, since it is so dependant on the powers of the units it is interacting with. There is already a significant cost attached to drafting Nick, and while being able to choose between replacing the destroyed figure, or placing it in the aura around Elbda, Nick is normally close enough to the front lines that the choice is not significantly game changing. The Zombies of Morindan typically prefer to continue to move as a hoard, so would typically prefer another squad or a stronger cleanup hero in place of Elbda. Finally, the Skeletons of Annellintia are a surprisingly effective pairing with Elbda. Positioning Eldba in the early to midgame, Necromantic Nexus can be used to keep the Skeletons on the front line compensating for their low move value and keeping the relatively fragile Lady or Duchess Esenwein out of harms way. The one-two punch of Necromantic Nexus and Necromancy is tied to the number of Skeletons you draft increasing it value in higher point games.
Theme:
Necro-Mage Elbda fits well as a sub-commander between the frontline fodder and a more powerful leader when drafted with either the Thralls or Skeletons of Annellintia. I like how both Elbda’s powers are contingent on other units and that Elbda is not powerful on its own, requiring the mage to fit into existing army structures. Magic by its nature involves a lot of handwaving, and we see that here with the ranged attack and Necromantic Nexus, but we are talking about a skeleton after all. Choosing Valkrill over Utgar, seems determined by the utility of Mindless Pack Command over Necromantic Nexus, since A tormenting Undead Mage could fit with either. Three defense it a bit of a stretch given the chosen miniature, but I prefer to keep the power set simple rather than add Skeletal Form.
Creativity:
I’m surprise that the trope of subcommander hasn’t shown up more in Heroscape. The closest examples are secondary bonding figures like Crixus to Spartacus, whereas Elbda as a midlevel manager is perfectly implemented. I personally enjoy the high variance of the Thrall army, and have repeatedly used them in testing, but as delta pricing shows, they can use a bump in turn efficiency to be competitive. I like the simplicity of how Mindless Pack Command is implemented rather than modifying the D20 roll. As I expand on below, Necromantic Nexus is a clever power that rewards clever players working well with multiple common undead units.
Playability:
As with all non-bonding cheerleaders, Elbda adds complexity to order marker management. With the tight 5 sight space aura, if you want maximum attack efficiency you need to have developed some thralls before moving Elbda up the battlefield which requires careful timing. This is made more complex by the inclusion of Nick in your army as you are juggling three active units. Leaving Nick exposed or forgoing attack turns with Thralls to reposition Elbda makes for a house of cards that is all to easy to come crashing down. When skill and luck work in your favour, playing this way can be hugely rewarding but does require favourable terrain, that does not require significant board control. For those that prefer to play safe, keeping Elbda in or just outside your start zone to help move out additional thralls in the early game is a viable option, since 3 attack at 5 range on a 4 life 3 defense figure is a reasonable clean up option.
In either case if you can constantly activate an additional thrall on each order marker, the Thralls are operating a 150% efficiency, which is a huge boon. Knowing you are guaranteed to activate at least 2 thralls, allows for more aggressive planning. Using a Bloodburst or Deathstrike Thrall soften up a hero, then following up with a Preyblood or Darkprowl leans into the strengths of the Thralls while reducing possible loses from Engorge, Blood Hunger, and Pounce. Having the option for improved positioning with Necromantic Nexus was a nice bonus, but was rarely game changing, given that smart opponents don’t leave their squad figures isolated for Nick to snack on.
Playing Elbda with the Skeletons of Annellintia really breathed life into the skeletons. While the skeletons are slow figures that can be a fast army, the ability to place a Skeleton 5 spaces further up the board than Elbda really improves their board control. Banking on Necromancy, I found myself playing even more aggressively since I could position skeletons on or just short of the front lines without risking my Lady or Dutchess tucked safely in my start zone. Since Necromantic Nexus is clear sight spaces, you can ignore elevations and position them on hills, across rivers or atop walls. Elbda and Sonia add up to 95 points plus 3 squads of Skeletons a strong core army. With that many Skeletons you have the potential to bring 10 Skeletons back (6 of 12, 3 of 6, 1 of 3) though in practice Order Marker management or loosing Sonya to an assassin reduces this number. These numbers only increase with Army point values, making for a very scary army of the undead at in higher point games on larger maps. I did feel a sense of excitement each time a Skeleton popped up among the front lines, as if the battle was happening in a graveyard and someone was playing Thriller on the boombox.
For completeness I tested with both the Zombies of Morindan and Zombie hulk, but these armies prefer to hoard all the order markers to themselves. Additionally, figures destroyed by Zombies are typically where you want your newly created Zombies anyway.
Summary:
As a judge I enjoy when a designer can tap into unexplored roles within a Heroscape army, such is the case with the middle manager mage role Elbda fulfills. I found Elbda enhances existing units in a way that makes them more fun, or play differently which adds to the fabric of the game. While the Thralls and Skeletons can be played without another Mage in the mix players will find rewards by adding in Necro-Mage Elbda.
I vote Yea to induct Necro-Mage Elbda into the SoV.
wriggz
Friendly Neighborhood Librarian
I think you are waiting for a vote on on Jedidiah? I like black bullet as much as I like Bolt of Wither wood (which is a lot). The Double X marker use does feel "Customy". I like the direction of trying to crib off Clayton. I feel there is a great unit here, but don't feel this one is it. I vote no to review (this version at least).
I've been offsite for a while (as a Canadian the Trade tensions have been encouraging me to avoid the internet), but I want to comment on the Scorpions. IIRC i suggested the underbelly power, and I think it has great theme and interest. However, after reading the reviews, the weakness to range is obvious and seems it would make for less engaging games. Maybe they will crawl back with a "melee" only version, but i respect the insight of the reviewers.
Finally I love the Icthiuses as a new faction and common squad. Regret not voting on them when i had the chance.
vote on on Jedidiah? I like black bullet as much as I like Bolt of Wither wood (which is a lot). The Double X marker use does feel "Customy". I like the direction of trying to crib off Clayton. I feel there is a great unit here, but don't feel this one is it. I vote no to review (this version at least). I've been offsite for a while (as a Canadian the Trade tensions have been encouraging me to avoid the internet), but I want to comment on the Scorpions. IIRC i suggested the underbelly power, and I think it has great theme and interest. However, after reading the reviews, the weakness to range is obvious and seems it would make for less engaging games. Maybe they will crawl back with a "melee" only version, but i respect the insight of the reviewers.
Finally I love the Icthiuses as a new faction and common squad. Regret not voting on them when i had the chance.
Jedidia Mulroney has received 5 Nay votes to review (Scytale, MegaSilver, Xiegfried, Dysole, and wriggz) and is removed from the process.