I would like to submit the Aldorn "faction" Expansion.
I would also like to preface this submission to say that I designed these with the intention of making sure that the Specters of Aldorn will not need them to be useful. They are augmentations to the Specters, that can affect how a Specter army is played, but they do not aim to make the specter army stronger necessarily, just more well rounded in certain matchups.
Master Aldorn and Lady Aldorn are separate submissions. The Visages of Aldorn are a secondary submission to Master Aldorn.
Master Aldorn
Card Text:
Spoiler Alert!
Visages of Aldorn
Card Text:
Spoiler Alert!
Lady Aldorn
Card Text:
Spoiler Alert!
List of Terrifying cards for refference:
Spoiler Alert!
Themes behind Master Aldorn, and the Aldorn designs: Master Aldorn is an Archmage that was the Lord of the land in which the People who would become the Specters of Aldorn lived. A Necromancer, intent on removing Aldorn from the area, caused a calamity, and attempted to bring everyone in the area back from the dead as his servants. Aldorn, being an Archmage, was able to prevent the necromancer from taking control of them, but He now roams as an undead specter along with the rest of the people whom he oversaw.
Gameplay: Aldorn and the Visages are themed after Aldorn splitting fragments his own soul, and sending them out to do his bidding. A skill he was able to use after becoming an undead specter. With the Visages, Aldorn can be a potent attacking force. This is kept in check because of the ease at which an opponent can dispose of the Visages. They are slow, can't block enemy movement in most situations, die easily, and unless you keep them close to Master Aldorn, they don't hit very hard, so there's a good amount of counter play to the potential they have.
Aldorn is also a damage buffing Cheerleader for the Specters. (and the Skeletons, Shades, Shadows, and Zombies) In certain matchups they really wish they had just 1 more attack die, even with the -1 defense debuff they can apply. Aldorn provides that, along with some short ranged firepower. He also buffs the other common Terrifying figures, but the Specters are his most consistent option. The Skeletons are his second best option. The ordermarker management is harsh, since they are already so slow, but they can make use of the extra attack die when it does work out. Zombies may be an option, but they honestly work better with more Zombies, and/or Zombie Hulks. Shades are another option that's not particularly appealing. They aren't really trying to rely on their own attacks kill stuff in most games, but on the occasion that they have to fight it out, if you can get Aldorn into position, they do appreciate the extra attack. Shadows are a bit more viable, but generally would prefer to have 3 more Shadows. When you do add him to the Shadow army, even wit the potential of +1 attack, it's tough to justify taking an order marker from Xundar, due to how flexible his options are.
Lady Aldorn is an answer to the really big/tough guys. When the Specters need a can opener, She's there to fill that role. In the beginning you can move out with order markers on her, since you still get to move 4 specters. This does keep her on 2 spaces of movement, but since you wouldn't be able to attack yet anyway, it's a good way to make sure she's set up for when you do want to make use of her special attack. Blade of Terror also works with all Terrifying figures, though this isn't particularly useful in most cases, since you loose out on the free army development that Scream of Terror provides to the Specters. Still, a special attack is nice to have for the Skeletons.
Figures used:
Master Aldorn is a Reaper minis figure called "Invisible Wizard 77450".
Since Reaper regularly reprints their unpainted minis, availability should not be an issue.
Visages of Aldorn are from the same line as the Specters of Aldorn. Nolzur's Marvelous Miniatures. The set come from is called "Shadow". The Nolzur's line has consistently restocked their figures for the past several years, so I'm relatively confident in their availability, but here's some sites that sell them:
And of course you can find them on ebay, or at your Friendly Local Game store, which is where I bought mine.
Lady Aldorn is a D&D figure from the Icons of the realm: Rage of Demons line, called "Banshee #21"
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Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
- Thread starter Scytale
- Start date
How many figures are in the Visages of Aldorn squad? ThanksI would like to submit the Aldorn "faction" Expansion.
I would also like to preface this submission to say that I designed these with the intention of making sure that the Specters of Aldorn will not need them to be useful. They are augmentations to the Specters, that can affect how a Specter army is played, but they do not aim to make the specter army stronger necessarily, just more well rounded in certain matchups.
Master Aldorn and Lady Aldorn are separate submissions. The Visages of Aldorn are a secondary submission to Master Aldorn.
Master Aldorn
Card Text:
Spoiler Alert!
Visages of Aldorn
Card Text:
Spoiler Alert!
Lady Aldorn
Card Text:
Spoiler Alert!
List of Terrifying cards for refference:
Spoiler Alert!
Themes behind Master Aldorn, and the Aldorn designs: Master Aldorn is an Archmage that was the Lord of the land in which the People who would become the Specters of Aldorn lived. A Necromancer, intent on removing Aldorn from the area, caused a calamity, and attempted to bring everyone in the area back from the dead as his servants. Aldorn, being an Archmage, was able to prevent the necromancer from taking control of them, but He now roams as an undead specter along with the rest of the people whom he oversaw.
Gameplay: Aldorn and the Visages are themed after Aldorn splitting fragments his own soul, and sending them out to do his bidding. A skill he was able to use after becoming an undead specter. With the Visages, Aldorn can be a potent attacking force. This is kept in check because of the ease at which an opponent can dispose of the Visages. They are slow, can't block enemy movement in most situations, die easily, and unless you keep them close to Master Aldorn, they don't hit very hard, so there's a good amount of counter play to the potential they have.
Aldorn is also a damage buffing Cheerleader for the Specters. (and the Skeletons, Shades, Shadows, and Zombies) In certain matchups they really wish they had just 1 more attack die, even with the -1 defense debuff they can apply. Aldorn provides that, along with some short ranged firepower. He also buffs the other common Terrifying figures, but the Specters are his most consistent option. The Skeletons are his second best option. The ordermarker management is harsh, since they are already so slow, but they can make use of the extra attack die when it does work out. Zombies may be an option, but they honestly work better with more Zombies, and/or Zombie Hulks. Shades are another option that's not particularly appealing. They aren't really trying to rely on their own attacks kill stuff in most games, but on the occasion that they have to fight it out, if you can get Aldorn into position, they do appreciate the extra attack. Shadows are a bit more viable, but generally would prefer to have 3 more Shadows. When you do add him to the Shadow army, even wit the potential of +1 attack, it's tough to justify taking an order marker from Xundar, due to how flexible his options are.
Lady Aldorn is an answer to the really big/tough guys. When the Specters need a can opener, She's there to fill that role. In the beginning you can move out with order markers on her, since you still get to move 4 specters. This does keep her on 2 spaces of movement, but since you wouldn't be able to attack yet anyway, it's a good way to make sure she's set up for when you do want to make use of her special attack. Blade of Terror also works with all Terrifying figures, though this isn't particularly useful in most cases, since you loose out on the free army development that Scream of Terror provides to the Specters. Still, a special attack is nice to have for the Skeletons.
Figures used:
Master Aldorn is a Reaper minis figure called "Invisible Wizard 77450".
Since Reaper regularly reprints their unpainted minis, availability should not be an issue.
Visages of Aldorn are from the same line as the Specters of Aldorn. Nolzur's Marvelous Miniatures. The set come from is called "Shadow". The Nolzur's line has consistently restocked their figures for the past several years, so I'm relatively confident in their availability, but here's some sites that sell them:
And of course you can find them on ebay, or at your Friendly Local Game store, which is where I bought mine.
Lady Aldorn is a D&D figure from the Icons of the realm: Rage of Demons line, called "Banshee #21"
Lord Hierarch
Member
I’ve always wanted to submit. I do have some units, but most are from other medias.
I can assume no figures from other franchises?
I can assume no figures from other franchises?
D&D is on the table, of course, but unlikely anything else.
Tornado
Fan Fiction Prompt Master
Curious as to the franchises/media/characters. Heroscape did allow for two different franchises so it is not like the original designers were against it.
I wouldn't say a different IP would be an impossible addition, but VC is, by its nature, a conservative organization. Any attempt to try new things, no matter how minor, gets a mix of reactions from the VC members. New things have to get over the hurdle of the members who are against it, on top of the usual pushback over design disagreements. A new IP would be a hard sell.
2 figure squad.How many figures are in the Visages of Aldorn squad? Thanks
bellahdoll
New member
I rarely post however I felt it justified to throw in my two cents here. Not to be a raging liberal railing against the conservatives in VC however a bigger diversity of figures can ONLY EVER be GOOD. No offense however I despise Motley Max because I hate the Mad Max franchise. So.... I just didn't buy it. That's it. Him being a part of VC didn't hurt me in any way. And I'm glad he's here for the people who love him. My avatar is Kendall Morgan from Power Rangers and used to be Hermione Granger. Having either of them in VC would be among the best things to happen to me in my whole life. People LOVE their favorite characters. Having franchises people adore helps those who loves them. It can make their day. It can make their LIFE. Inviting more characters into the Battle of All Time hurts NOBODY. I repeat for emphasis: it hurts NOBODY. If the design quality and balance is there the source or inspiration of new releases won't hurt the standing of your project before the community.
I don't like using strong language however anyone in VC who is against expanding what they're willing to do is objectively harming the community by stifling what figures it will release. I can't see any reason why blanket banning figures from other franchises does anything other than harm. Options are GOOD. They don't hurt ANYONE. What hurts is anyone in VC who is putting limits on what they will release that don't relate to the QUALITY of the design. That is unacceptable to me. I respectfully yet heavily encourage anyone in VC who is against adding franchises (or any other limits on design inspiration) to realize they are only harming the community. Options are good. I don't like sci-fi. I rarely play sci-fi units. Would Heroscape be a better game if from the outset it only had historical and fantasy figures and never included no sci-fi? No. It would be an objectively worse game. Because options are good. Perhaps unintentionally VC has taken over the customs community to a large degree. While there are some very good independent designers still active - and I play many of their units - they are far fewer in number than they used to be. Fewer people make customs now than they used to and those that do often aim for SoV. VC has taken over and centralized the customs community far more than it likely intended to. While I respect and encourage everyone out there to make their own designs without even thinking about the SoV, and I wish more people would do that, the fact is TONS of people see the SoV as their top or even only custom priority. VC is the biggest, at times almost the only, show in the customs community now. With that being the case, excluding franchsises when you are the majority of the customs community means you are stifling the majority of the customs community. You really owe it to the community to allow them to submit any unit they want, regardless of franchise or source, with quality being the only consideration. I've yet to see a good custom Hermione design. Tell me that wouldn't delight a TON of people. I dare you. Giving someone their favorite character will only encourage more people to use VC units. Those that don't like them... just won't use them.
Oh, and before anyone notes C3G and other custom projects. Well, C3G has changed to the point where it basically isn't even Heroscape anymore. See? I'm not so liberal that all change is good. And they strictly only allow comics characters anyone, much to my annoyance. As to the other projects, the sad fact of the matter is even Heroes of Star Wars Scape - Star Wars! - is a ghost town. Other projects don't command the level of respect or dedication that VC does and inevitably burn out. I have VC figures that haven't been released that I bought 5+ years ago that I have zero doubt WILL be released. Because VC is stable and reliable and that isn't something other projects can replicate. Nor can they equal its design quality and high standards. And if you just keep those high standards for all of your releases it won't damage your reputation no matter what franchise you dabble in. Quality counts - not source material. Motley Max didn't cost you any fans or any respect. Nor would Hermione Granger. The Cathar Spearmean however? They might have. Because quality and balance are what people look at.
I doubt I've changed anyone's mind. But I hope I'm wrong. I hope you at least stop and consider that releasing franchise characters will only make people happy. Refusing to do so means you are quite literally refusing to make people happy. And for what? Why would a project dedicated to providing people continued fun with their favorite game want to refuse to make people happy? This is a game after all. Peoples' enjoyment matters more than any self-created principles or rules you have. VC made their rules. So they can change them.
There is nothing stopping you from making your own customs for them, or finding someone's customs for them (there are likely multiple out there), or looking into one of the numerous other customs projects that do things like this. There are many such avenues. Expecting VC to do the same is expecting too much; making everything for everybody was never the goal of VC, neither the C3V nor the SoV. The goals of these organizations has always been to continue the original game, not expand its scope. That sort of work is well-handled elsewhere.
As an SoV judge, I do think that's outside of the purview of what VC wants to do although I do agree that "making it into SoV" has become a goal for customs creators and that's not a great thing but there's not really any way to avoid that particular issue without changing how human nature works.
With the exception of Executioner 616, I almost never design customs for VC usage. It's mostly me grabbing an existing property and being like "How can I Heroscapify this?" It'd be neat if more customs creators did this, but that's not the world we live in. As it is, VC has intended to always be a continuation of Classic Scape and the one licensed product that was released (Marvel) looked very distinct from Classic scape so additional franchises were never on the menu for Classic Scape and if they did it would be more reminiscent (James Murphy being Indiana Jones or the Krav being the Matrix/Men In Black) than the actual character themselves.
~Dysole, with her one and a half cents
With the exception of Executioner 616, I almost never design customs for VC usage. It's mostly me grabbing an existing property and being like "How can I Heroscapify this?" It'd be neat if more customs creators did this, but that's not the world we live in. As it is, VC has intended to always be a continuation of Classic Scape and the one licensed product that was released (Marvel) looked very distinct from Classic scape so additional franchises were never on the menu for Classic Scape and if they did it would be more reminiscent (James Murphy being Indiana Jones or the Krav being the Matrix/Men In Black) than the actual character themselves.
~Dysole, with her one and a half cents
superfrog
This is merely a joke.
Not the place to argue this but the idea of VC is that our decisions about what units we put out does impact other players. You may treat VC as a buffet, which is fine, but big chunks of the Heroscape community take VC as a set. Adding IPs is going to be immersion-breaking for a bunch of players (just look at the reactions to Renegade teasing GI Joe 'Scape).
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bellahdoll
New member
Except it isn't well handled elsewhere. That was the point. There AREN'T numerous other projects or avenues that do this. Check the board. There are almost no posts in those projects. They don't get off the ground. They rarely release many customs before interest dwindles. You don't get to say it is well-handled elsewhere when most of those projects burn out so fast they don't finish or even get started on many of their goals. And again, C3G only does comic characters, so it isn't always viable. Tons of things do eventually get a comic, but far from everything. And the comic book version of a thing can be radically different from the film/book/TV version also.
Okay, taking it point by point now: There is nothing stopping you from making your own customs for them. Well that is extremely condescending. You don't need to tell me I can design my own custome like I'm somehow so dumb I don't know that. I certainly never said you were stopping me from making my own customs. However not everyone is capable of doing that and designing and balancing them effectively, so you shouldn't be asking them to. I certainly can't. If it were that easy to make well balanced customs any figure submitted to the SoV would be automatically approved. Your review process accurately shows how difficult making quality customs is, so don't presume everybody just can.
No, there aren't preexisting customs for TONS of popular characters. There are an enormous number of fictional characters, and even very prominent ones have no customs of them, or only exceedinly low quality ones. The world is a vast place and tons of things do not have a custom figure already designed, and many of those that are designed by one lone individual can be of questionable balance.
I'm not requesting any particular character ever be included. I'm requesting no one should be EXCLUDED automatically. I'm saying you should allow ANY custom to apply on merit (including availablity) alone. Creating a rule to always exclude certain customs based on their source without regard to their merit, gameplay, and balance doesn't make any sense. I'm not requesting you make everything - which isn't even possible. I'm requesting that everything - and everyone - be welcome. VC doesn't need to make everything, but it should be willing to make anything. It should be available to any quality custom without discrimination. That shouldn't be expecting too much. It costs you nothing.
You say you don't want to expand the original game's scope. You WOULDN'T be. Marvel: the Conflict Begins tells you you are objectively wrong: other franchises aren't expanding the game's scope. The original game already included them. This would NOT be doing anything the original game didn't already do. Multiple times, and would have again if the Star Wars set had been lucky enough to be released. Original Heroscape showed a great willingness to add in other franchises. You doing so would only be keeping in line with the scope of the original game - and without having to pay licensing fees. If they got Marvel and Star Wars by willingly paying those ginormous fees, can you imagine how many franchises OG Heroscape would have added if they were all FREE? Heroscape wanted to expand; it had begun doing so and only stopped because, well, Heroscape stopped.
This is why I don't post here or anywhere else online. I expected a hostile response like this - and yes, intentionally or not, your tone was VERY hostile and condescending - telling me how foolish and wrong I am, and to go elsewhere. Well I'll do that. Good to know I'm not welcome here. The difficulties of everyday life trigger my mentall illness enough - I don't need to knowingly invite more triggers. For my own welfare I won't be posting here likely ever again now. Lesson learned. Goodbye.
1) As you have already been informed, that would be outside the scope of the project.
2) It does cost something: this is an entirely volunteer project making your demands extremely disrespectful to their time.
3) Sorry about your mental illness, but that does not entitle you to make people do things your way or no way.
4) Bye, Felicia.
2) It does cost something: this is an entirely volunteer project making your demands extremely disrespectful to their time.
3) Sorry about your mental illness, but that does not entitle you to make people do things your way or no way.
4) Bye, Felicia.
Lord Hierarch
Member
... I mean at the end of the day I asked a question and someone answered, gave several reasons why it isn't not against the rules (the proper word escapes me atm) but also reasons why it doesn't the goal of the project. And I'm satisfied with that. But damn those rants came outta nowhere.
Meanwhile I have a tangentailly related Q - I know several models come from other franchises like the mecha nd the droid, but say the Fallout power armor. I saw in Gamestop there's apparently a Fallout mini game? Would it fit the pureview of this thread or the other fan custom project to slap a unit idea on a miniature that's a little more recognizable/mainstream?
Ex. Screw it, say the Cybermen from Doctor Who or a Space Marine mini. Say call it Mr. Roboto and Star Champions. But the model itself is very recognizible.
Am I making sense? To what extent do we keep to thematic given the initial variety of the setting?
Yeh!
Meanwhile I have a tangentailly related Q - I know several models come from other franchises like the mecha nd the droid, but say the Fallout power armor. I saw in Gamestop there's apparently a Fallout mini game? Would it fit the pureview of this thread or the other fan custom project to slap a unit idea on a miniature that's a little more recognizable/mainstream?
Ex. Screw it, say the Cybermen from Doctor Who or a Space Marine mini. Say call it Mr. Roboto and Star Champions. But the model itself is very recognizible.
Am I making sense? To what extent do we keep to thematic given the initial variety of the setting?
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I know there was a bit of a discussion when figuring out what minis to use for the Zettian Infantry. At the time, most of the members of VC weren't as versed in the prequels and so didn't see it as a Super Battle Droid but just a mech. Not sure that would be done today. I know Scytale has said on more than one occasion that a DND mini was too recognizable for him to accept a reskin. I think the general rule at this point is "the more well known and recognizable it is, the less likely it would be used" but there's definitely a possibility that whatever mini is chosen turns out to not be that recognizable unless you're in the fandom.
~Dysole, who can't give a straight answer to save her life
~Dysole, who can't give a straight answer to save her life
Zeldarck
Member
I think they fit well
Personally, only as a player which like VC products. I like when it goes on other licence (for exemple Cthulu or those droid), but I prefer when it's under different name + the figurine fit into the artistic direction of the game.
(thanks for your work VC team)
@bellahdoll C3G use other license now, there is some overwatch figure into it for exemple. Don't know what is their limit
Tornado
Fan Fiction Prompt Master
Great rant!
C3G has been continuously in IP discussion and expansion pretty much from the start.
The comic restriction was pretty strong at first with characters like Freddy and Jason being not allowed. As time went on and leadership changed so did that stance. Horror characters are now a feature and at least one has zero comic book appearances. Also cards are not always the comic version, we absolutely have MCU versions of characters and DC TV as well.
Expanding IPs is a current discussion to this day and I think you did a great job of expressing the benefits of doing so. We have certainly seen increased interest when we started doing GI Joe and Power Rangers cards. Gundam has been a big hit. The main issue in the past has been follow through. Star Wars has been difficult as most people love the IP and can have strong differing opinions. I could see Harry Potter someday in C3G. A passionate person like yourself could totally make something like that happen.
C3G is still Heroscape at its core. The rules are more concise but expansive but the transition is fairly easy and the wording is way better for custom powers. The downside is it is tougher to mix and match but that was never really recommended anyway.
I hope you get your wish but I find it doubtful.
If Heroscape does expand into GI Joe or another IP, would SoV then except submissions for that IP?
C3G has been continuously in IP discussion and expansion pretty much from the start.
The comic restriction was pretty strong at first with characters like Freddy and Jason being not allowed. As time went on and leadership changed so did that stance. Horror characters are now a feature and at least one has zero comic book appearances. Also cards are not always the comic version, we absolutely have MCU versions of characters and DC TV as well.
Expanding IPs is a current discussion to this day and I think you did a great job of expressing the benefits of doing so. We have certainly seen increased interest when we started doing GI Joe and Power Rangers cards. Gundam has been a big hit. The main issue in the past has been follow through. Star Wars has been difficult as most people love the IP and can have strong differing opinions. I could see Harry Potter someday in C3G. A passionate person like yourself could totally make something like that happen.
C3G is still Heroscape at its core. The rules are more concise but expansive but the transition is fairly easy and the wording is way better for custom powers. The downside is it is tougher to mix and match but that was never really recommended anyway.
I hope you get your wish but I find it doubtful.
If Heroscape does expand into GI Joe or another IP, would SoV then except submissions for that IP?
nyys
quoting myself - insanity beckons
Has there been any comic heroes submitted to SoV in the past? During my time in the SoV (which was a long while ago) I don't believe there was, of course with the C3G along side, I doubt it was given much consideration.
That said, my guess it that it's not that IP submissions are not allowed, but they likely wouldn't pass through, even if Renegade created one for 'ModernScape.'
All true, and you are quite right that making well-designed and well-balanced customs is very difficult. But that's the rub, isn't it? As difficult as it is to make your own customs, doing so for a wide audience, whether creating or judging, is all the more difficult. Thus rules and guidelines are needed, to put reasonable bounds on what a project is designed to do.
The cost is very high, actually. Anything we work on means countless other ideas do not get worked. Which is why it is sensible to restrict what we choose to work on and what is rejected.
Your initial post was very hostile and condescending, as was this one. I did not mean to respond in kind, but I apologize for doing so. I understand your point about being open-minded about IPs, and in fact there is no hard rule in VC preventing such things. But VC is intended to be an extension of original, classic Heroscape. Not separate-but-compatible like the Marvel set was, and not an organization that freely expands the worlds the Valkryie pull from. That's not what the projects are designed to do.
My point with my original response and this is simply this: It is an honor that people like yourself see our projects in such high regard that you want us to expand our mission. That shows trust in our process and our quality. But frankly we're struggling to keep moving forward with what we have on our collective plates as it is. The other customs projects dried up, as you noted, because it's an awful lot of work. VC will continue to limit our scope to expanding classic Heroscape, which is not an outright rejection of other IPs, but makes them very unlikely.
Lord Hierarch
Member
That’s alright. Sometimes you just gotta go-
... I suddenly feel young again.
Speaking of, I've only done a cursory research on the threads - this subforum is a bit weighty
- but is there like steps or recommendations as to how to get a unit ready for review say in SV or C3V or other?
SkyWhale
Active member
Speaking of, I've only done a cursory research on the threads - this subforum is a bit weighty
First is a whole bunch of playtesting and refining, to a point where you think your unit is good enough for submission (I think the Discord is a great resource for feedback at this stage), then you can get more refined feedback from The Pre-SOV Workshop. If you're wanting help with refining wording, Help with Wurdz is great for feedback on proper phrasing.
nyys
quoting myself - insanity beckons
What @SkyWhale said and just to emphasize, once you create a unit, playtest the heeeeeeeeeeeeeck out of it before submission.Speaking of, I've only done a cursory research on the threads - this subforum is a bit weighty
I wrote a series of articles for the Heroscape Codex addressing this. I don't know how to find them here though, or even if they survived the site transition. @quozl, do you know?Speaking of, I've only done a cursory research on the threads - this subforum is a bit weighty
Shadowking
Active member
Speaking of site transition, the OP of this thread also seems to have reverted back to an earlier version with some things being missing/wrong.