[Defunct] The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne)

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Still having a disconnect with surgery which is hands on and pistols that are range. If it is to show his knowledge of human anatomy and his ability to hit vital spots, how does that apply to non-humans, especially androids, constructs, Destructible Objects, alien physiology, etc.?

Shoot the Android/Alien in it's eyes? We have many powers that are not perfect theme match-ups vs. every unit in the game. I can see a DO carve out though.

 

[Alexandros]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

What are everyone's thoughts on the name of Surgical Accuracy? Arkham had suggested Surgical Precision. Does that catch anyone's interest more?

Also, speaking of scrapping it up, would it make sense to give him the ability to attack non-adjacent figures even though he is engaged? If so, would you add that to Phantom Walk and do a rename of the power, or include it in Surgical Accuracy?

Surgical Precision has a better ring to it, imo.

Also, adding to the larger discussion about the usage of Surgical here- I figured it wasn't exactly literal? As in- the word is being used to describe exactly how precise Thomas is rather than the contexts Thomas is precise in. I truthfully don't think he needs to only have it apply to non-adjacent figures, but I understand taking that direction.

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Second power name updated to Surgical Precision with the non-adjacent qualifying language removed.

Thoughts on a proposed change from Phantom Walk to a Bat-Grapple?

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

If he uses Bat-Grapples in his universe, then I'd make the switch as it makes him feel more like a Batman than a Punisher.

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

If he uses Bat-Grapples in his universe, then I'd make the switch as it makes him feel more like a Batman than a Punisher.

It appears he does, so I made the change. I agree it makes him a little less Punishery.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Looks good

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Would the following changes to The House Always Wins clear up some confusion, i.e. read better?

THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS
If a figure targets Batman for an attack, you must both roll the 20-sided die. Add 2 to your roll for each revealed Order Marker on this card. If you roll higher, that the targeting figure receives a wound and it may target Batman again, or otherwise its turn immediately ends.

 

[Ericth74]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

It reads a little better to me.

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Looking at it again, I think I need to move the comma from after "again" to after "wound."

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Text of "The House Always Wins" updated for clarification.

With Bat Grapple on the card now, is anyone else feeling a move to 5 defense instead of 6 is appropriate? 6 seems like quite a bit now that he has an easier time gaining height advantage.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

I support that change.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

5 sounds good

 

[Ericth74]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

I'd agree with a drop to 5

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Defense changed from 6 to 5. I plan on going through checklists this week as long as everyone is comfortable with where this is at.

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Competitive Review Board Checklist

Spoiler Alert!

Efficiency- Check to see if your design is providing armies with turns/moves/etc. to a degree that would make it difficult or impossible for an opponent to keep up with your output.

1. Does your design allow itself or figures to move/attack/take a turn/etc. instead of/in addition to your normal turn for revealing an Order Marker? Is it granting these benefits to too broad a range of units? Does it combine with other powers to create overly long or powerful chains of actions?

No

2. Does your design allow you to take actions during an opponent's turn? Can it combine with other powers to create tediously long reactions to enemy actions or a restrictive environment?

Yes, The House Always Wins requires a targeting figure to roll the D20 before attacking Batman and has the ability to wound the targeting figure and possibly end the targeting figure's turn. The power creates a restrictive environment with regards to attacking Batman only. I don't foresee any tedious long reactions being caused by this power.

3. Does your design allow you to rearrange your Order Markers or otherwise bypass the costs of Order Marker requirements on the special powers of other figures?

No

4. Is your design doing anything outside of a player's turn, at the start or end of the round? Is the effect too powerful by itself or when combined with other powers?

No

5. Does your design have any powers that trigger anytime it moves as opposed to only when it moves normally on its turn? Will it be too efficient when combined with figures that grant extra moves to figures?

Bat-Grapple 3 allows for movement outside of normal movement, but does not trigger any other power on the card. N/A

6. Is your design adding or subtracting from initiative rolls? Will it pair too easily with other figures that alter initiative or have powers triggering on the results of initiative rolls?

No

Potency- Check to see if your design is wounding/removing/etc. enemy figures, increasing the chances of other figures in your army doing so, or otherwise directly effecting the number of figures available to players to a degree that would make it difficult or impossible for an opponent to recover from.

1. Does your design have a chance to inflict wounds or destroy figures? Is it getting these chances too frequently or having to high a chance of success? Is the power balanced against expensive targets that can cause a massive swing in the game when destroyed?

Yes, Surgical Precision allows for a double attack and an additional wound if the attack is successful. With a base attack of 4, wounding frequency should be held in check, but adjustments can be made if necessary.

2. Is your design adding to the stats or 20-sided die rolls of other figures in your army? Is it a boosting a broad enough range of units effectively enough to become a 'mandatory' draft or inhibit future design space? Can it be combined with other boosts too easily?

No

3. Will your design benefit from stat boosts or other enhancement to an overpowering degree? Will it restrict future growth within its faction or point cost by limiting available boosts to others?

I don’t believe it will limit future growth within the vigilante/sidekick faction. Batman will benefit from attack boosts and defense debuffs given his Surgical Precision special power, whether that will be overpowering with a base attack of 4 is a question that can be answered in playtesting.

4. Does your design take control of enemy figures permanently or temporarily? Is it too difficult to for your opponent to regain control of their figure or recover from the losing the figure? Does the method of taking control expose the enemy figure to the powers of other figures in your army that can easily destroy it?

No

5. Can your design heal itself or others or revive itself or others? Is it doing so in a way that an opponent cannot hope to overcome in certain scenarios?

No

6. Does your design place enemy figures on its card or otherwise have an unconventional method of temporarily removing enemy figures from play? Will it guarantee your victory against a single remaining enemy figure?

No

Chicanery- Check to see if your design is preventing your opponent from taking actions with too much ease or is otherwise causing negative play experience through tactics that make your opponent feel you're 'not playing fair'

1. Does your design restrict the movement of enemy figures, or allow you to move enemy figures? Can it do so in a way that results in an unwinnable scenario for your opponent if they are down to one figure, posses only figures with a range of 1, etc.? Can your design easily combine with other figures to greatly impede enemy figures or otherwise gain an excessive advantage?

No

2. Does your design effect/change the placement of an enemy's Order Markers, or remove their Order Markers entirely? Can it force Order Markers to go onto cards that have no figures on the battlefield? Can your design easily combine with other figures to completely dictate the placement of an enemy's Order Markers or remove all of their Order Markers?

No

3. Does your design inhibit your opponent from attacking your figures or make attacking a losing proposition? Are there scenarios or combinations that make your opponent totally unable to harm your figures through attacking?

Yes, a combination with Zatanna III may be problematic.

4. Does your design directly negate the powers of enemy figures or otherwise ignore them in a way that can completely disrupt the opponent's strategy or leave them feeling like they are stuck playing figures without special powers?

No, I don’t believe so.

5. Does your design become overly powerful in a podded group of figures, or provide significant benefit to your army without leaving your Start Zone?

No

6. You can attack your own figures in Heroscape, does your design have any powers that will trigger off of doing so or otherwise wounding/destroying your own figures? Is this intentional on your part? Will the design be too efficient or potent when doing so?

Yes, as currently written any targeting figure is subject to the requirements of The House Always Wins. This could be changed to affect only opposing figures targeting Batman.

Consistency Checklist – Short Form

Spoiler Alert!

Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.

Correct

Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.

Correct

Left Box
If the character's species, class or personality is reused, verify that the character feels thematically consistent with other figures that have that species, class or personality. If they are not reused, verify that there is no pre-existing species, class or personality that would make more sense.

Correct

Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.

Medium 5 Seems appropriate.

Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.

No Superstrength or Flying Needed. Correct

New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.

No issues here. Surgical Precision is a twist on Surgical Strike. The House Always Wins appears to be a brand new power.

New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.

Timing could possibly be better clarified in the text of The House Always Wins.

Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.

No Issues Here

Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.

Power level seems appropriate compared to other Batmans.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Nice work. Just realized he has a bit of Azrael with range thing going.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

pre-yea for initial

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

If there are no major concerns, I propose we move to initial playtesting.

@Arkham - Yea;
@Ericth74 - Yea;
@IAmBatman - Yea;
@MrNobody - Yea;
@Tornado - ;
@Arch-vile - Yea;
@Yodaking - Yea;

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

yea

 

[Arch-vile]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Yea

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

yea

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

Yea

 

[Ericth74]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

yea

 

[redstang]

Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

This Passes for Initial Playtesting.