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Consolidated List of Problems With The Renegade AOA Roll Out

Hogg said:
Everything has to be so definitive nowadays and it has seeped into AoA as well. Look at how many new characters are named "Whoever THE whatever." I notice it in Marvel comics now too, whenever a new bad guy shows up they're always Somebody the Something, instead of just having a regular name. In Old Scape we had a few "The Viking Warrior"s, a bunch of "The Kyrie Warrior"s, and a Darklord. Everybody else just had regular name, like just Nilfheim instead of "Nilfheim the Frostbringer."
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VC customs is much better at this. Still, at first, going through the books, I had to click on the link to remember who was who. Swaysil, Urk, Talingul, Bol, Maltis Tez, etc. I think Oldscape hit the happy medium, with short names, but still hinting at the identity of the figure. Nilfheim and Jotun being near straight from Norse Mythology for example, describing a frozen world and a race of beings. All the orc's names ending in -ak. Agents and Majors being all from Vydar, and Majors were all Soulborgs. &c.
 
Sir Joey said:
VC customs is much better at this. Still, at first, going through the books, I had to click on the link to remember who was who. Swaysil, Urk, Talingul, Bol, Maltis Tez, etc. I think Oldscape hit the happy medium, with short names, but still hinting at the identity of the figure. Nilfheim and Jotun being near straight from Norse Mythology for example, describing a frozen world and a race of beings. All the orc's names ending in -ak. Agents and Majors being all from Vydar, and Majors were all Soulborgs. &c.
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Funny that 4 of your examples are SoV, and the fifth is a generic wizard like the elves of old.

That said, I need to look up the AoA figures even with the long titles, during to lack of familiarity.
 
Hogg said:
Everything has to be so definitive nowadays and it has seeped into AoA as well. Look at how many new characters are named "Whoever THE whatever." I notice it in Marvel comics now too, whenever a new bad guy shows up they're always Somebody the Something, instead of just having a regular name. In Old Scape we had a few "The Viking Warrior"s, a bunch of "The Kyrie Warrior"s, and a Darklord. Everybody else just had regular name, like just Nilfheim instead of "Nilfheim the Frostbringer."
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The new approach is so off-putting to me that I find it hard to engage with these figures as characters in a story. They're just gamepieces with awkward, self-indulgent, and overly long names slapped on them. It makes them seem like they're desperately yelling "look at me, my name is DEVASTATING, I'm so COOOOOL!" instead of just being calmly, confidently cool and letting us discover it. In some cases there isn't even a good, clear pronunciation evident... it's like somebody let their 9-year-old nephew name a bunch of the units and this kid thinks the pinnacle of coolness is Glrfnaxflixxiarchiau'bnwuui the Awesome Destroyer of Everything. Blech.

Frak, so much cringe, I just can't seem to engage with these things like the old stuff. Classic Heroscape was never so cringe.
 
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Sounds like y’all prefer Irene to the names made by the War Council
 
Irene's too far in the opposite direction! What a mundane name—we just call her Mama Bear :rofl: that seems to fit better

~TAF
 
Just_a_Bill said:
The new approach is so off-putting to me that I find it hard to engage with these figures as characters in a story. They're just gamepieces with awkward, self-indulgent, and overly long names slapped on them. It makes them seem like they're desperately yelling "look at me, my name is DEVASTATING, I'm so COOOOOL!" instead of just being calmly, confidently cool and letting us discover it. In some cases there isn't even a good, clear pronunciation evident... it's like somebody let their 9-year-old nephew name a bunch of the units and this kid thinks the pinnacle of coolness is Glrfnaxflixxiarchiau'bnwuui the Awesome Destroyer of Everything. Blech.

Frak, so much cringe, I just can't seem to engage with these things like the old stuff. Classic Heroscape was never so cringe.
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These names are holdover from the AH campaign.

Except Knight Irene which is Renegade's.
 
Makes sense. They did seem to be *intensively* into the lore of their own creation .... But absolutely weird choice to get Craig involved and not let him name the characters.
 
IAmBatman said:
Makes sense. They did seem to be *intensively* into the lore of their own creation .... But absolutely weird choice to get Craig involved and not let him name the characters.
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Branding and licensing is Big business now, likely wanted to use a committee or marketing experts. Funny that, since the best characters seem to come from creators with passion and creative freedom rather than from a formula.
 
wriggz said:
Branding and licensing is Big business now, likely wanted to use a committee or marketing experts. Funny that, since the best characters seem to come from creators with passion and creative freedom rather than from a formula.
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It is opposite of the ethos of OriginalScape, which was generic recognizable tropes from pop culture, fiction, and history. Accountants are strangling the creativity of the concept.
 
When I refer to the characters/cards on my threads here about playing AOA, which I've been doing a lot for the new scenarios from the first two boxes and now the free online scenarios, I find I've just dropped out the second 'title' part of the new names. No one has asked for clarification of their identity! Except in official Renegade games, in which I do not participate, I don't expect I'll be using them at all.

Even our own local Store Events are informal; we just set up some maps and play with whatever we've brought and whoever shows up to share the day!
 
Sure. And Heroscape has a long history of community nicknames for figures anyway (Chompy, Mittens, Rats, etc.).
 
Doesn't really matter all that much to me who botched them up. My point is just that they're botched, and when you look at the totality of negative aesthetic changes, in combination with the baffling number of production mistakes and other unforced errors, this has all become "zombie Heroscape" to me. Yeah, there's still some good gameplay. But so much of the original aesthetic/storytelling vibe has been trampled (and plenty of people really cared about that stuff) that it isn't really "our" Heroscape, but more like "another" Heroscape that is a mere shadow of its predecessor. Some people don't care about all that, and I'm glad they're happy about getting new gameplay and new miniatures that drive things ever farther away from the classic aesthetic than ever.

Nuscape is still playable. It still functions. But it's no longer beautiful. It will have its supporters, but it won't be as beloved as it was. It can't. It no longer understands what the necessary elements are for that. It doesn't actually appear to care.
 
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Just_a_Bill said:
Doesn't really matter all that much to me who botched them up. My point is just that they're botched, and when you look at the totality of negative aesthetic changes, in combination with the baffling number of production mistakes and other unforced errors, this has all become "zombie Heroscape" to me. Yeah, there's still some good gameplay. But so much of the original aesthetic/storytelling vibe has been trampled (and plenty of people really cared about that stuff) that it isn't really "our" Heroscape, but more like "another" Heroscape that is a mere shadow of its predecessor. Some people don't care about all that, and I'm glad they're happy about getting new gameplay and new miniatures that drive things ever farther away from the classic aesthetic than ever.

Nuscape is still playable. It still functions. But it's no longer beautiful. It will have its supporters, but it won't be as beloved as it was. It can't. It no longer understands what the necessary elements are for that. It doesn't actually appear to care.
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Obviously this rings true for D&D scape. If there had been a 5 year gap between Wave 10 and BftU we would call that Zombie Scape. We don't talk about AotP, but that was an even worse Zombie Scape. I wonder if Hersocape launced with SotM and the following waves, would Scape even be as beloved at it is now.

I look at RotV and the first 3 waves as lightning in a bottle. Sure there were great units, but the first Master set and 3 waves were amazing, and cohesive set. IT really mimics LotR movies, those movies would NEVER get made today. Peter Jackson was given a budget and creative control that seems outrageous today. Comparing AoA to RotV is as crazy as comparing Rings of Power to the Lord of the Rings, it is an impossible bar.
 
wriggz said:
I look at RotV and the first 3 waves as lightning in a bottle. Sure there were great units, but the first Master set and 3 waves were amazing, and cohesive set.
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Scape was pure magic back then. I couldn't hardly wait to track down all that goodness. It really felt like anything was possible, everything from everywhere and every time was coming together to battle. Now it all feels so much narrower, like it's mostly just implementing badly colored monsters from one specific fandom rather than taking a little of everything from everywhere in time and space. And why on earth has Heroscape abandoned the Marro, a dramatically and aesthetically great civilization that is one of its best inventions?

wriggz said:
Comparing AoA to RotV is as crazy as comparing Rings of Power to the Lord of the Rings
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Lol, my post originally included this exact example, and a few others. I deleted all that for brevity, but your comparison is so true.

I will say that the D&D/MtG invasion was different in one way: I could pick out some individual parts here and there to enhance my Scape collection without dragging it down. Some of the figure painting was quite good, it was great to get Dungeon terrain and outcrops, etc. I had thought I would be able to do the same with AoA, but the army cards are cartoons, prepaint quality is a joke, historical units are no-shows, the bases apparently curl up like that AotP trash, terrain mismanagement is now almost legendary... buying new sets never used to require a Copium prescription.

Still haven't seen Rise of Skywalker or Dial of Destiny or episodes 2+ of ST Discovery, and probably never will. Now I wonder if the Age of Franchise Abuse will outlive me.
 
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No matter who had their hands on AoA in the end, it was never going to live up to original Scape, never. It was always going to feel different. That said, I'm surprised by how far off they got from the mark. Too many times those in positions of authority think they should fix things that aren't broke. Especially when they think they have knowledge about something they clearly don't (outed by their own actions).
 
Just_a_Bill said:
Doesn't really matter all that much to me who botched them up. My point is just that they're botched, and when you look at the totality of negative aesthetic changes, in combination with the baffling number of production mistakes and other unforced errors, this has all become "zombie Heroscape" to me. Yeah, there's still some good gameplay. But so much of the original aesthetic/storytelling vibe has been trampled (and plenty of people really cared about that stuff) that it isn't really "our" Heroscape, but more like "another" Heroscape that is a mere shadow of its predecessor. Some people don't care about all that, and I'm glad they're happy about getting new gameplay and new miniatures that drive things ever farther away from the classic aesthetic than ever.

Nuscape is still playable. It still functions. But it's no longer beautiful. It will have its supporters, but it won't be as beloved as it was. It can't. It no longer understands what the necessary elements are for that. It doesn't actually appear to care.
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100%. We are in the MCU Phase 4 of HeroScape at this point.

There were things about the original that even the WotC designers didn't understand. For those that don't remember, before Aquilla was introduced, a fan was able to accurately predict a sixth general based on the lore. https://www.heroscapers.com/threads/heroscape-color-theory.9481/
 
nyys said:
No matter who had their hands on AoA in the end, it was never going to live up to original Scape, never.
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I agree for AoA (meaning every Haslab item) itself. It has a few winners that a lot of us have wanted for quite some time (Kyrie for Vydar/Aquila, Aquila Dragon, evil Raelin [even if the wings/abilities/design is rather off], a cheaper Kyrie hero for the Minions of Utgar, and generally the remixed SotM heroes.
The Eisenek, Dryans, Bears, Vorids, and Pirates are less exciting, but the Pirates especially allowed for revisiting a few different species, and Crimson Widow will make old unique squads more viable, which I welcome.

The obvious glaring omission is historical figures (unless you count Killian Vane I guess?).

But, if we operate under the assumption that any company getting the Heroscape license would begin by releasing AoA designs in 2024 and move on to new designs after:
Then, a more competent company who either
A. Appreciates Heroscape like everyone over at Plaid Hat, or
B. is very good at reviving old games like Restoration Games
it may find its footing for new designs by mid 2025 or so, but probably without any real stinkers in designs.

But you couldn't find more red flags than the those raised by the Renegade-teased designs if you were sailing in a hurricane.
 
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Nukatha said:
:
Then, a more competent company who either
A. Appreciates Heroscape like everyone over at Plaid Hat, or
B. is very good at reviving old games like Restoration Games
it may find its footing for new designs by mid 2025 or so, but probably without any real stinkers in designs.

But you couldn't find more red flags than the those raised by the Renegade-teased designs if you were sailing in a hurricane.
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As always I try to take a centrist approach, but reading this made me sad for what could have been. I love mice and mystics and summoner wars. I've backed restoration 3 times over and love their work.

I suppose we will always have Paris.
 
I see how the current spate of new designs is different from what we had before, thematically. But I don't agree with all the doom-and-gloom... we're in a new age of Heroscape but it's not awful.

Mechanically I think the new designs are pretty cool, and feel very Heroscapey.
 
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