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A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings

Sweet

lefton4ya said:
I disagree with this
Matthias Maccabeus said:
...
F
...
Hatamoto Taro
Roman Archers
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Those are in the "S" category - so far above all other figures that only the cheapest looser would play them in any tournament, and it invalidates all wins with them. He put them in F to try to trick us.
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That must make me a pretty cheap loser since I have brought both to tournaments and did pretty well. They are pretty OP.

~Dysole, who was glad she swallowed her drink of water before reading dok's post
 
This is certainly interesting considering I tend to play ranged units or the occasional bonded melee army... 10th are like Major Q10 in that I never used to fear facing them out of the highly regarded units.
 
Jexik said:
This is certainly interesting considering I tend to play ranged units or the occasional bonded melee army... 10th are like Major Q10 in that I never used to fear facing them out of the highly regarded units.
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One of the many things I’ve learned over the years about Heroscape is I truly approach the game pretty differently than most. This helps me thought process my perspective on how I see the game, for better or worse.
 
Matthias Maccabeus said:
Jexik said:
Major Q9 as a B+ is pretty spicy though. ;)
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What about Raelin at B?
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Yeah, that's "wrong" too.


I think Raelin with Knights is actually probably better than anyone gives it credit for, but it's just such overkill and unfun to play that no one does it, kinda like putting Rats with Raelin in the same army.


Imagine you're playing at like 540 points/24 hexes... would anything be better for the Knights than 5x Knights, Gilbert, Raelin?
 
Jexik said:
Matthias Maccabeus said:
Jexik said:
Major Q9 as a B+ is pretty spicy though. ;)
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What about Raelin at B?
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Yeah, that's "wrong" too.


I think Raelin with Knights is actually probably better than anyone gives it credit for, but it's just such overkill and unfun to play that no one does it, kinda like putting Rats with Raelin in the same army.


Imagine you're playing at like 540 points/24 hexes... would anything be better for the Knights than 5x Knights, Gilbert, Raelin?
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I would argue another squad of knights. Raelin limits mobility and that’s what the knights really like. The ability to go wherever they have to. Knights don’t need to clump. Raelin makes more sense with the heavies because they like to clump, though I’d still argue she’s not necessarily making them better. I’ve seen Chris Perkins play knights as a wall backed by Raelin and Thorgrim to protect his range units. It’s very solid, but it’s also limiting in terms of mobility.
 
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I feel like Raelin is only limiting to your mobility if you choose to play that way. The reason Knights/Raelin can be so good is that because of their base 4 def, they aren’t scared to leave her aura, unlike other armies you would play Raelin with. Put one OM on Raelin early to protect your slow roll, and then on an OM 3 throw her right in the middle of the action and make your opponent choose between 6 def Knights or spending multiple turns ignoring the Knights to kill Raelin.
 
boromir96 said:
I feel like Raelin is only limiting to your mobility if you choose to play that way. The reason Knights/Raelin can be so good is that because of their base 4 def, they aren’t scared to leave her aura, unlike other armies you would play Raelin with. Put one OM on Raelin early to protect your slow roll, and then on an OM 3 throw her right in the middle of the action and make your opponent choose between 6 def Knights or spending multiple turns ignoring the Knights to kill Raelin.
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You can certainly play Raelin with knights, sure. That doesn’t necessarily make them better. Every order marker you put on Raelin is 8 knights that didn’t move. It’s also sacrificing a squad of knights. That’s 4 more guys with 3 atk and 4 def.

What happens when you move Raelin to a perch and the 4th mass just stay 6 spaces out and pick off the wings? Do you just leave the aura and engage, if so why bother with Raelin? Do you sacrifice moving 8 knights and possibly 4 attacks by moving Raelin up?

I’m not saying knights with Raelin is bad. I’m saying knights without Raelin is better. I’m also talking pure melee bonding. Like I mentioned earlier I’ve seen Chris Perkins use knights, Thorgrim, Raelin as a wall of sorts for his ranged units, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
 
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The Perkins Pod uses the Knights as defense, not offense. The range units are the offense in that army, which is vastly different than how traditional Gilbert and X Knights works.

That being said, Raelin Knights isn’t bad, but if I’m not going straight Knights, I’m probably bringing Nilf instead. There’s a reason that 3x Knights, Gilbert, Nilf has won Jandar at least once (my dad won Jandar in 2013 or 2014 with that, and I don’t think he was the first).
 
I also think it's interesting that Greenscales, which a lot of people were worried about being broken way back in the day, are considered to have a pretty bad melee matchup so aren't that scary.

My loss in day 2 was to Knights, so that mostly checks out with my limited experience with Greenscales competitively. Before I played that Arrow Grut build in 2011, I think I went 2-4 with the Greenscales at the TTO in 2010.
 
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I have updated the most important power rankings with the new AoA stuff. Obviously, most of it is speculation at this point, but I’m a pretty smart guy.
 
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I have updated the only power rankings that matter with all the revealed Renegade figures.

TLDR version: Knight Primus Adelbern is going to do some stuff.
 
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